Two bikers having a discussion on politics. Tit for tat ?? You decide.

I'm sure health insurance will get cheaper if we open it up to cross state lines. You will definitely get what you pay for though. The Republican model for health care is the credit card industry. Have you ever noticed that all credit card companies come from one of 6 states? Utah, Nevada, South Dakota, Virginia, New Hampshire and Delaware. Funny how 5 out of these 6 states have no usury laws that cap the amount of interest can be charged. Thankfully Arizona has a 36% cap. We wouldn't want a credit card company to gouge a consumer!

I do not believe in credit cards at all. We have cash/debit cards. By the way, I got your sense of humor at the end of the paragraph. Agreed. Your criticism of the GOP and their credit card solution to health care . . . . you are absolutely right on. There are those in the conservative ranks who will not tolerate that approach as a solution. Do you know that I am anti “establishment” when it comes to party politics? Maybe not. (editor writes in red)

You can vote people out of the government just as quickly as you can put a company out of business.

I could not disagree more. In many regions of the country, the elections are rigged. Here is California, the voting machines and the absentee/early vote are counted and 'maintained' by the SEIU. I don't trust the SEIU any further than I can throw up.

Wait!! Death panels are OK? As long as the insurance companies are running them? I can't even understand the logic.

Well, there is no logic. But you seem to be stuck on your concept of “fair." Death panels, no matter what they are called, are a part of our reality. ObamaCare has a 15 member panel that is responsible for determining how the programs meager funds will be used and what prescription medicine will be approved and what aged civilian will qualify for whatever medical action. One thing for certain, the very young and the very old will be standing at the end of the line. When we are all forced into the government option, there will be nowhere to go. AND, there is no appeal. Currently, you have recourse with your state insurance commissioner. Soon, you will have no recourse and, apparently, that is fine with you.

The way I see it, there are 3 things that we're all going to need. An education, health care and enough money to get by when we are old. There's really no way around these things. WIthout an education your country is gonna be poor. We've been gutting public education for decades. Its no wonder people keep voting for Republicans! They're UNEDUCATED! Without health care you probably aren't going to have to worry about having enough money when you get old because you probably aren't going to make it there. If everybody needs it then what's going to stop a corporation from charging more and more. Competition is can only hold prices down so much when its an essential service.

You are taking the easy way out, Paul. "Ad hom" is simple minded and I really do not think you fit that mold. When you accuse my side of being uneducated, just remember it is your guy who thought that if we just aired up our tires , we would no longer need Mid East oil. It is your guy who has no clue how to pronounce “corps,” preferring to say “Marine corpse” several times in a single speech. It is your guy who did not know how many states there were in the Union (57 “or is it 58”). It is your guy who thinks that there are such things as “shovel ready jobs” just waiting for government funding. It is your guy who stands in front of a bridge in Ohio, last week, and talks as if “we” could be working on that bridge next week if the GOP would just pass that jobs bill, today !! It is your guy who keeps talking about balancing the budget by taxing the “rich.” Have you bothered to pencil out Obama’s math? He wants to raise 1.5 trillion on the backs of those who know how to make money. Know what that does to the debt Mr. Obama plans on increasing over the next ten years? I do. Its 12 percent. . . . twelve stinking percent. He loves to say, “I will not balance the budget on the backs of the poor and the middle class. “ Duhhh. He isn’t going to balance the budget at all. Talk about “smarts.” Who is the dummy that thinks the rich can solve our problem? Like the man says, this ain’t politics, its math.

I'm not sure what you think is a reasonable tax rate but from what I get from reading Tea Party voices they want NO taxes. Your a biker and I'm a biker. Can you imagine what the roads are gonna look like if our taxes get any lower? Tax money doesn't just float out the government's ass (at least most of it). It provides ESSENTIAL SERVICES. POLICE! FIREMEN!

You are wrong about the T.E.A. movement’s opinion of taxation. “Straw dog” arguments are a waste of time. As a biker, you know full well that you have to ride with one eye looking around the next corner and one eye on the car behind you. Eyes wide open should serve you well in politics. Look, I was a Democrat until I was in my late 30’s. I voted for Carter. You can change, if not becoming a Republican, certainly turning towards “conservative.” You are younger than me, but I doubt you are a kid. I am a retired contractor/carpenter. There is no more intelligent bunch of right wingers than the men I worked with. Do you know any blue collar folks? You really think these guys are stupid?

The government is NOT OUT TO GET YOU. It doesn't care about your private business. A corporation IS OUT TO GET YOUR MONEY. It doesn't care about your private business unless it can be used to make money which in fact it can be used to make money. The corporation also does not care about your well being. They will take money from someone else when you die. The government is the only one that you can count on to protect you.

Your opening lines just above . . . . I have to laugh. Today, here in California, the commies running this state, just passed legislation that prohibits the awarding of jobs to non-union shops. Go tell someone who has his head up his butt that the government is not “out to get you.” They are the only ones who will agree with you. This blog has been shut down once, and I have stat counters that show me when someone in D.C. comes to my site. Understanding that TEA Party and “Conservative” are the same thing – and there are 30 to 40 million of us - we have been told to go to hell by members of Congress. Obama made fun of McCain saying, “Now he is defending a plumber.” You know what he thinks of Bible believing folks and gun owners . . . we don’t count. The Democrat Party of 2009 was the first Dictator Party in our history. It had the power to rule as if it were the only party, and that is exactly what it did.

The free market is not a solution to every problem. Especially not problems that are essential to everyone in the country's well being.

Socialism, as opposed to free market principles, does not work anywhere in the world. In fact, Europe is going up in flames because of the excesses promised from its socialist leaders. I am not against social programs that deal with society problems, as long as the country pays for those programs. Borrowing 40 cents on every dollar to fund the socialist dream world is neither sustainable nor is it intelligent. I believe that pure socialism can only work in a small population. Looking at historical models, say . . . . . the socialist nations in Europe, well, we have the proof of what I am saying. In France, something like 20% of the adult population has never held a job --- been on welfare all their lives. I call that “failure.” The fact is that the European model(s) does not and cannot work in this country. ObamaCare will collapse under its own weight.

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